Ah I see - the inherent hypotheticalness of statements about the future. But as you say, the pro-surveillance case also rests on forward-looking statements about what the security services are going to do with the data.
In that case we have to go backwards. The National reminded me today of this incident: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19860903&id=F... (Leon Brittan's involvment in politically motivated surveillance of CND). There's also the long and ugly history of Northern Ireland, and the more recent business of planting police informers in environmental groups.
The problem with trying to use recent history to prove a point is that everyone's already made up their mind which side they're on for things like extraordinary rendition, "School of the Americas", torture, Iran-Contra, arms-to-Iraq (Matrix Churchill), etc.
Matrix Churchill might be a good example, tbh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Report : MI5 instructed and secured secret permission for exports to Iraq, but then tried to protect the secrecy of this at the cost of not just allowing Matrix Churchill directors to be jailed but censoring their only legal defence and getting ministers to lie to parliament.
In that case we have to go backwards. The National reminded me today of this incident: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19860903&id=F... (Leon Brittan's involvment in politically motivated surveillance of CND). There's also the long and ugly history of Northern Ireland, and the more recent business of planting police informers in environmental groups.
The problem with trying to use recent history to prove a point is that everyone's already made up their mind which side they're on for things like extraordinary rendition, "School of the Americas", torture, Iran-Contra, arms-to-Iraq (Matrix Churchill), etc.
Matrix Churchill might be a good example, tbh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Report : MI5 instructed and secured secret permission for exports to Iraq, but then tried to protect the secrecy of this at the cost of not just allowing Matrix Churchill directors to be jailed but censoring their only legal defence and getting ministers to lie to parliament.