I hate to sound old-fashioned, but this puts the cart before the horse. Authors should have a book available for sale before accepting delivery payments. Ask any publisher how this sort of thing usually works out.
Not sure I follow this. Pre-ordering books is a pretty well established practice among publishers (yes, real ones, not just ebook authors).
Actually, it's the primary hack for getting on best-seller lists (pre-orders, then fulfillment in strategic batches designed to show consistent sales over time).
Or is this a more basic "No one should sell anything that doesn't already exist" argument?
If so, I'd point out concert tickets (usually 6 months advance sale), seminars, conferences, and most other large undertakings that need some sort of validated audience numbers as counter-evidence.
Why not all products, as long as there's no attempt to deceive, and the purchaser is clear that the product is not ready yet?
> Not sure I follow this. Pre-ordering books is a pretty well established practice among publishers ...
The difference is the person pre-ordering can back out, and generally speaking in pre-orders, no payment is made until delivery. It ends up being a measure of public enthusiasm, not a way to gather revenues in advance of delivery. In this case, people are paying for a book that doesn't exist yet.
> Actually, it's the primary hack for getting on best-seller lists
Yes, true, but see the pre-order discussion above -- generally, no money changes hands until the book is actually available.
Also, I have to add, the ultimate best-seller-list hack is to buy copies of your own book and put the copies back into the pipeline, endlessly, as the Scientologists are said to do.
> Or is this a more basic "No one should sell anything that doesn't already exist" argument?
But that's true in general -- in the worst cases, where delivery doesn't happen, the seller can be charged with fraud. I hasten to add I am not comparing this hypothetical (but all too common) outcome with the book under discussion, which for all I know is perfectly worthwhile.
Ok, but you didn't address my point about concert tickets et al. Obviously you pay in advance of seeing the concert, or attending the conference, and sometimes these things get canceled.
It's reasonable to expect money back, or worst case some sort of "raincheck" in case of a cancelation or delay. Same applies to ebooks in my mind.
"Public enthusiasm" doesn't pay the deposit for a concert hall or conference center, right? Why should an author not get paid in advance of the effort of writing a book? [Hint: authors already figured this out a couple of centuries ago - thus the publishers' advance]
So it's not really a question of money changing hands, it's just whose money, and whose hands.
> Ok, but you didn't address my point about concert tickets et al.
Fair enough. A concert doesn't work like a book -- the concert venue must know who is coming, in what numbers, in order to prepare. A traditional book publisher only needs to know enough to decide on the size of the next "printing", to fill the supply channel incrementally, as demand warrants.
The concert happens all at once, so the audience size must be known up front. The book publication might stretch over decades, with periodic decisions about the size of the next printing, so the publisher only needs to know the rate of change in demand, the "first derivative," to use the calculus term.
Two very different cases, from very different, non-comparable businesses.
Yes, of course, I'm not making an argument that concerts and books are the same business. That would be dumb.
I'm saying rather, there's no obvious reason to not get paid for them the same way, as long as the audience is willing. If they're not willing, that obviously won't work. But clearly in some cases (like the OPs), they are willing.
So as an author, you'd have to be irrational to not want to be paid as early as possible.
As a purchaser, you're free to vote with your wallet, and not pre-buy anything you don't want to. But if you want what the author is proposing, and want to give him encouragement by pre-buying, why is that somehow bad or wrong?
And my fuzzy calculus aside, the first printing for most books will also be the last one. So better to get the volume right. If only there were a way to accurately gauge demand before doing a printing...
> And my fuzzy calculus aside, the first printing for most books will also be the last one.
This is not the norm in publishing, at least, the desirable kind. For most publishers who promote and market books, profits don't start until the first printing has sold out and subsequent printings begin, with (a) all book preparation activities already complete, and (b) a public who don't need to be persuaded of a book's value. It is at this point that an author begins to be looked on as more than a one-trick pony.
Imagine a pre-publication advertisement: "A truly epic myth! Floods, plagues, the anguish of being unimaginably stupid! Certain to be a best-seller if the author ever gets done writing it! Pre-order the Bible now -- get in before the rush!"
:)
> If only there were a way to accurately gauge demand before doing a printing...
In modern publishing, there's no need -- books are printed, one copy at a time, when they are ordered. For example, my book only gets printed after someone buys a copy. This change (electronic on-demand publishing) essentially wipes out the traditional publishing model.
I think we all know what Print on Demand is, but that Wikipedia page doesn't list any proof for your assertion that it is "the coming thing." The only publishers it lists as offering POD are specialty POD publishers.
That's hardly the sweeping industry change you described.
"In modern publishing, there's no need -- books are printed, one copy at a time, when they are ordered… This change (electronic on-demand publishing) essentially wipes out the traditional publishing model."
This implies that this is the way things are, now, or will be in the very near future, for the majority. And there's no proof that "in modern publishing, books are printed, one copy at a time."
> This implies that this is the way things are, now, or will be in the very near future, for the majority.
And? It's a reasonable prediction based on current trends, and see below for more evidence.
> And there's no proof that "in modern publishing, books are printed, one copy at a time."
What? That's true -- it is how "modern publishing" is distinguished from old-style publishing. This is not to say that the majority of books are published that way, but then I never made that claim.
In modern publishing, books are "printed" one copy at a time, when they are ordered. How is that remotely controversial? It covers on-demand publishing as well as e-books:
Quote: "Whilst the market has seen significant growth since 2008, the last 12 months in particular has shown a substantial rise. Between January 2011 to January 2012, sales in adult eBooks grew by 49.4%, while sales in children and young adult eBooks grew by 475.1%, according to the AAP. The good news for digital publishers is this trend is expected to continue."
Quote: "An electronic book (variously, e-book, ebook, digital book, or even e-editions) is a book-length publication in digital form, consisting of text, images, or both, and produced on, published through, and readable on computers or other electronic devices.[1] Sometimes the equivalent of a conventional printed book, e-books can also be born digital. The Oxford Dictionary of English defines the e-book as "an electronic version of a printed book" ...
From my perspective, there's nothing more motivating than having people chomping at the bit to get their hands on your book. The end product is arguably better because it's not being written in a vacuum and is bolstered by a ton of support.
Yes, but that end can be accomplished through pre-publication excerpts and interviews, not by accepting payments for a book not yet written. The former increases public enthusiasm for a book, the latter doesn't. Reasonable people may differ.
In your arguments against presales, you haven't said why you think that the other way is better. What's your reasoning? I'm assuming "because one creates better publicity" isn't it, since you seem to have something against the idea for deeper reasons.
> In your arguments against presales, you haven't said why you think that the other way is better. What's your reasoning?
In the traditional approach, reviewers who have no economic stake review a book or an excerpt and let the public know what they think. In most cases the public can assume the review is objective.
In an approach like this one, an author uses pre-orders or advance payments as evidence for the book's merit. But those pre-ordering haven't yet seen what they're buying. The problem should be obvious -- the author can say, "My book must have merit -- look at all those who have ordered it in advance of seeing it!"
Again, I am not saying any of this applies to this author or this book -- it's completely hypothetical.
I can't tell who you think is being served poorly by this. The people who can get their money back immediately if they are disappointed? The same people who might preorder any other kind of book on Amazon.com? The reviewers, who theoretically are less biased about something they got for free? The author, who you presume is using existing sales as a weak ipso facto ex post facto argument for the quality of the book-in-progress (which, as you admit, is purely hypothetical)?
> The reader gets involved in the making of the book, the writer gets a way to talk with their best customers, everyone wins.
Not disparaging this specific author or publisher, but this was once accomplished by having advance reviewers offer their criticisms without any money changing hands.
> A savvy author trumps a crappy publisher any time.
He's basically asking for an advance directly from his readers. The flipside, of course, is that he must also return this "advance" if no book is made available.
Exactly. PayPal would also step in and refund if I flaked out on my side of the deal.
It goes without saying, I'm pretty certain I'm going to make a LOT more money in sales once the book is ready (immediate gratification). So it's in my best interest to get this out the door soon.
