Incredible story. I often wonder what it would be like in my state if Cannabis was declared legal. You see, I go to 911 calls. I can count on my hand the number of times I've been called for an emergency that was directly related to Cannabis.
Alcohol, is another story entirely. Depending on the area, there are days that I would run out of fingers and toes counting the number of calls that are a direct consequence of alcohol. That is, I've never been on a call where someone smokes sooo much cannabis that the thought to stab 3 or 4 people becomes an idea worth executing. Or, more simply, someone that decides to smoke sooo much cannabis that they can no longer control their bowels... in public. Perhaps we should discuss the people that decide to smoke sooo much cannabis where driving into stationary objects like people's homes, bars/restaurants and non-stationary objects like pedestrians and other cars is rather common. Obviously, I don't see this happening with Cannabis, but with alcohol...
Then we get to the people that can't afford beer and whiskey so they start drinking listerine or anything with alcohol and need expensive medical treatment. They can't afford medical treatment either, so taxpayers pay for the listerine and then pay for the treatment.
The list goes on and on... spice is really fun. When a new batch like "King Kong Purple" hits the streets, we all warn our families that we will be coming home exhausted from being up all night as the overdoses roll in every 20 minutes. Trying to get a spice OD on the gurney is a treat no EMS person should miss... They are biting, spitting, often uncontrollably vomiting, smashing their heads against anything (Concrete, pavement, ems personnel, sharp objects), kicking, screaming and are more often that not completely nude and covered in mystery fluids. It's a real treat.
We should really legalize Cannabis. My hope is that everyone just uses that instead of the other stuff that is legal. I know that is naive, but I can hope.
I am involved with a company called EazeUp, that also actively pushes for legalization to happen in the US - and I think precisely for reasons similar to the ones you list.
> We should really legalize Cannabis. My hope is that everyone just uses that instead of the other stuff that is legal.
And this is precisely the fear of the huge corporate moneyed law-defining entities that sell and profit from the other highly-destructive, highly-addictive stuff but can't profit as much from an easy and cheap to grow plant.
very insightful comment from "the streets", thank you for it!
I presume we all should accept that majority of population has sometimes the urge to let a bit of steam off (or just get wasted), and rather than fighting the flow, those in power should steer it to as-little-harm-as-possible-to-society scenarios.
You seem oblivious to the fact that alcohol being available just about everywhere, unlike cannabis, is highly correlated to the amount of harm being done.
The city I work for is roughly 1 hour and 30 minutes from the border of Mexico. I don't have empirical data to show the availability of Cannabis here,, but I suspect its pretty easy to get if you want it. I have heard we are a major hub of Cannabis distribution to the rest of the US from my LEO friends.
I say that to say this; I grew up here and it was significantly easier to get Cannabis (and other stuff) than it was to get alcohol as I grew up. At the time, I didn't keep up with geopolitics nor the drug trade in general. We just assumed our proximity to the border "was somehow related"... Although, this fact may have changed since then.
Further, I would also suspect that if there was major harm being done as a correlation with availability, Fire Service and EMS professionals would be reading about it in our trade journals. As some have pointed out, Cannabis is widely available in Colorado, Washington, and I believe Oregon.
I don't know where you're from, but cannabis is certainly very available in many parts of the U.S. And much easier for minors to obtain in areas where it's illegal!
I'm from France, and it is widely available as well, however it is nowhere near as available as alcohol.
I mean I am hardly ever further than a couple minutes away from a place where I can buy alcohol.
As for minors, I'd argue the problem lies more in the late access to alcohol in the US.
Then as of the effects of cannabis itself, it increases reaction time. So you could definitely pull the brakes one second too late in front of that kid and his balloon. But yeah, it might not make you as prone to think killing 3 people is an acceptable activity.
You calling OP oblivious is the basest ignorance. They seem pretty well informed, perhaps more informed by reality than anyone else could possibly be. You make the mistake of not accepting that OP has never had to respond to a medical pr safety emergency because of cannabis. You see, somewhere, there many people with lots and lots of cannabis available to them, just like alcohol is available to everyone else. OP has never had to help them. The sample size isn't just 99% percent smaller than alcohol. For OP, it is zero. It never ever happens with the current availability to all or the very high availability to a few. It stands to reason then that it is much safer than alcohol at any level of availability. It is, after all, a very different drug than alcohol
But is the harm really correlated with alcohol being widely available? It seems like there are several confounding factors, including:
- Excessive consumption (which most people who consume alcohol don't do).
- Excessive consumption + driving
- Mental Illness
It's unclear to me that alcohol prohibition would dramatically reduce harm, when issues like mental health problems and building safer transit systems aren't addressed.
As it is often pointed out, prohibition seems to increase localized harm (as evidenced by the the 1920s prohibition, and the current drug war in Mexico and poor US inner cities), by driving the intoxicant trade into the criminal black market.
It's the nature of the drug, not availability, that causes these problems. Caffeine is even more widely available, yet doesn't have the negative effects.
> Perhaps we should discuss the people that decide to smoke sooo much cannabis where driving into stationary objects like people's homes, bars/restaurants and non-stationary objects like pedestrians and other cars is rather common.
I agree with all your points but this one. I think this may become common if Cannabis were legal in your area. I think it's only uncommon right now because people are using Cannabis in their own homes or someone else's home, for the most part.
(anecdote) I live in Colorado where cannabis has been legal for quite some time. People driving in to stationary objects while high on mj definitely hasn't become any more of a problem than it was previous to legalization (read: its not a problem.)
(even more anecdata and speculation) I live in Washington, and it is absolutely not a problem here. The main difference, to my mind, is that alcohol induces higher risk behavior, while cannabis produces risk aversion. Prohibition has been an abject failure. That said, I don't think it's very good for your brain. Worth avoiding or at least moderating your intake.
The only thing alcohol and weed have in common is that they are both drugs. There is no overlap in the effects they have on me, except in the broadest sense: relaxation.
Alcohol makes you think there's nothing you can't accomplish. Weed makes you wonder how the hell you are gonna accomplish anything. And if you are too impaired to drive under weed, you damn well know it.
Driving while intoxicated is always a bad idea (hell, driving is usually a bad idea). But not all intoxicants leave you with the feeling that you can and should drive.
You can often tell who speaks from a place of complete and total ignorance on this subject, the (willfully) ignorant will try so very hard to equate driving shit-faced with driving on marijuana.
They couldn't be more different. Not a popular opinion, I know. It's also an ignorance-free point of view.
I have no idea what you're replying to, but I don't think it's anything I wrote.
I'm not arguing for or against legalization (what I think you're responding to). I'm making an observation. OP described the number of accidents caused by cannabis users to be low or uncommon. I was replying that that's likely due to the (relatively) low number of cannabis users and users on the road, and proposed that, as it becomes legal, accidents (caused by cannabis use) will become more common.
I DID NOT say it would be equivalent to drunk driving accidents.
I DID NOT say driving stoned was the same as driving drunk.
I DID NOT say cannabis should remain illegal because of this.
Go ahead and call me ignorant, but at least read and reply to my comments instead of replying to things I never wrote.
You are right, but I think we can't say definitively one way or another until we have more data. Personally, I think it is a bad idea to operate machinery when with any potentially mind altering (drowsy, intoxicating, etc.) substances on-board. That doesn't stop people from driving on heavy doses of Nyquil or prescription drugs, believe me. People that have no regard for the law, themselves, and others will continue to do what they do irrespective of what is legal or not. That is just an aspect of free will and the human condition.
I'm from one of such Himalayan villages, though I only seldom go back there now.
One important aspect to consider here is people don't necessarily think of it as illegal or a drug. There isn't really 'police' enforcing anything for the local. The local police station has like 1-2 people who pretty much just hang out and are friends with the locals.
Everyone in the village knows each other (sort of) and it is only the adult (males) that will have access to and make it. Teens and children don't really do it because someone or the other will find out and then they are in trouble, so the system corrects itself pretty quickly. I've never heard of a single case ever of overdose or anything like, though it has ruined the productivity and general health of a very large number of people.
ah, the places like Manali and Malana bring back fond memories from few years back, a month spent in the area. this stuff grows everywhere wild, I mean EVERYWHERE - even in central park in the middle of biggest provincial city. banning this on state level didn't affect consumption, just gave corrupt police a way to extort some proper cash on those poor tourists that got caught. it seemed that within certain altitude band (say 2000-3300m), this flower was at home (seen it also in abundance in nepal on annapurna circuit).
going to India as backpacker for at least several weeks, ideally months is experience out of this world. so intense, so complex, so different and exotic. After 2 months there, memories of my life back in europe seemed no more than memories of a distant surreal dream. it's a harsh and beautiful place full of amazing people. cannot recommend enough.
as for strength, cannot really compare since the stuff is uber-powerful. but so is moroccan and all other.
I know next to nothing about this sort of stuff, but when I was in Nepal even the best stuff was incredibly low quality compared to Californian stuff. I think in California, we spend a lot of time cultivating and perfecting cannabis.
Cannabis was a roadside weed in Peking. I was an exchange student there in 1979 and some of the European students gathered bags full of it. Leaves are not very potent by modern standards, but it worked.
Specially the Indian police. There are so fucking many problems in the country to take care of.
PS: Knowing them, most probably they raid these fields only when they want villagers to pay up.
Er. Do you imagine farmers and chefs all wear gloves and hazmat suits while handling the produce that you eat every day?
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If the idea of a few skin cells disturbs you, you'd better not look too closely into how food handling actually works in the real world.
Food processing doesn't happen that way. There are, for example, FDA guidelines for acceptable levels of hair, rodent feces, larvae, and "insect fragments" in food. And you eat it all every day!
After some time, I bet there aren't enough loose cells to get into the resin. The first batch may have a bunch, but the 10th batch? Probably not so much....
I knew an old guy in Northern California when I was a kid who said he'd made hashish by dressing up in biker leathers and walking through a pot field, then scraping off whatever stuck. (Clever, until you realize they probably weren't using brand new leathers for that...)
i know i will get lot of downvotes but still let me say it anyway.
Everytime i see cannabis thread in HN frontpage, i was quite cynical. It is illegal (in most of the places) and consumption of it cause cancer. It is as harmful as tobacco (or might even more).
Still, i see that the way HN user show interest towards cannabis. Why ? Isn't it harmful ? Am i missing something.
> consumption of it cause cancer. It is as harmful as tobacco (or might even more).
This is very strongly debated. There has not yet been enough study to prove or disprove this, partially due to the fact that it's a Schedule I drug in the USA
It will also depend on how you consume it. Smoking is likely to be what puts you at risk the most.
edit: you deserve to be upvoted so people can actually participate in a discussion you seem to genuinely want to have
Being alive is a known cause of cancer. Having a prostate and living long enough is almost like having a contract for cancer. I could go on, but you get the point.
'Smoking' would contribute to cancer. Vaping and eating it would not. And while not completely benign, it's not even close to as harmful as tobacco is. I'd recommend doing some research instead of basing your opinions on old timey reefer madness logic.
eating a cake or two from time to time will not increase your cancer risk in any possible measurable way. burning any plant (or anything for that matter) and inhaling the smoke will put a lot of carcinogens right in your lungs/bloodstream.
I like the way it makes me feel. It's a great way to relax at night after dinner. It also makes me more creative. I come up with cool projects or approach a problem from a different perspective.
Cannabis actually has great potential to treat cancer (it is actively used for this... lots of personal, positive stories...conflicting scientific reports).
It's proven to be medically beneficial (the only known treatment?) for seizures. There are many parents who have moved to Colorado to gain access to CBD (a compound in cannabis) for their epileptic children.
On top of all that, cannabis sales in Colorado just passed $1b. That's a whole lot of tax revenue going to schools, creating jobs, etc.
Then don't smoke it. Scrambled eggs are a nice way of consuming cannabis and are what I had in mind when I wrote that no, cannabis is not harmful - because it in itself most definitely isn't.
Agreed, but you were responding to a comment that was implicitly referring to smoking it. Smoking was the context of the "Isn't it harmful?" question you were answering. It's responsible to clarify your answer, since the commentor was requesting enlightenment.
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others." - Harry J. Anslinger, first US drug czar.
At the time when it was made illegal (early 30s): racist policies and pressure from various businesses. Now? Because of entrenched "tradition" within many reactionary legislatures.
I'd like to know, too. It changes slowly, fortunately, and more and more jurisdictions recognize cannabis as both a potent medicine and safe recreational drug.
Alcohol, is another story entirely. Depending on the area, there are days that I would run out of fingers and toes counting the number of calls that are a direct consequence of alcohol. That is, I've never been on a call where someone smokes sooo much cannabis that the thought to stab 3 or 4 people becomes an idea worth executing. Or, more simply, someone that decides to smoke sooo much cannabis that they can no longer control their bowels... in public. Perhaps we should discuss the people that decide to smoke sooo much cannabis where driving into stationary objects like people's homes, bars/restaurants and non-stationary objects like pedestrians and other cars is rather common. Obviously, I don't see this happening with Cannabis, but with alcohol...
Then we get to the people that can't afford beer and whiskey so they start drinking listerine or anything with alcohol and need expensive medical treatment. They can't afford medical treatment either, so taxpayers pay for the listerine and then pay for the treatment.
The list goes on and on... spice is really fun. When a new batch like "King Kong Purple" hits the streets, we all warn our families that we will be coming home exhausted from being up all night as the overdoses roll in every 20 minutes. Trying to get a spice OD on the gurney is a treat no EMS person should miss... They are biting, spitting, often uncontrollably vomiting, smashing their heads against anything (Concrete, pavement, ems personnel, sharp objects), kicking, screaming and are more often that not completely nude and covered in mystery fluids. It's a real treat.
We should really legalize Cannabis. My hope is that everyone just uses that instead of the other stuff that is legal. I know that is naive, but I can hope.