(I'm sure there are various German things to criticize or to make fun of. Much of what I read here, however, says more about the (US?!) authors, though.)
Does it matter. It's just some arbitrary company. They do have the freedom to decide those things however they want, right? The customer can then decide whether to switch or not.
It matters because if it works and people continue using the platform then other providers will follow and the only remaining E2EE providers will be niche.
If there is nothing else, then you as a customer has screwed up with it before, right? And then the entire strategy/philosophy is maybe to be reviewed?!
Or, in other words: If there is no alternative, this is due to your own faults. Either deal with it, or find ways to undo your mistakes.
Exactly. And once those ones are established: Why not have all discussions there; not just the ones where you explicitly want to hide something (for whatever dubious or legit reason).
Yes, indeed, as far as I understood younger people, they'd definitely do a lot of "very smart things" (tm) before they get the idea that one can indeed exchange email addresses via tiktok. Guess what: It's not solely for emojies! :-p Theoretically - although no one ever did - you _could_ exchange useful information there as well.
Are there any BAR forks or alternatives that don't force me into proprietary walled gardens for exchange with the community? I would even donate! Even regularly!
I'm always baffled why there are obviously enough people (not only here in particular; but also here; and sure, it's not a majority, but it's enough people to actually have some influence) who can formulate all these claims, but the actual movement is quite disappointing.
As long as everybody knows that you are just talking, but in the end you are basically fine with everything and declare "pragmatism" and all those lame excuses from the last ~20 years, there will never be any actual movement for the better. So why taking care and constantly having those lengthy debates?
Is it just your way to deal with frustration? Or what are these discussions actually for?
I'm really just asking, because I'm actually asking that myself since quite some time now. I just don't get it. The same for some other yet similar topics, e.g. having these dependencies to corporate social media, ..., ...
Additional thought: I also constantly find people somewhere, fighting some decades old fight, e.g. against Windows and Microsoft, and how bad it is in terms of privacy, sovereignty, freedom, ..., and Recall, etc.; but if you ask them "Do you use WhatsApp?", they don't even have a clue why you ask...
IMHO, if the community isn't able to recognize that entire mindset as problematic AND find some actual solutions for it, there is no value in all these discussions.
Well, mistakes like iPhones being closed have existed for decades, enshittification on modern computers is still relatively new. What makes no sense is people who should know better giving into fear based locked down computing for idiotic reasons.
Some things were always wrong. Since day 1. And since day 1 there were people (e.g. me) who constantly told the others. But got ignored.
No, enshittification is not new. It was obvious from day 1 that it will eventually happen. To everybody who know basic mechanisms of how human beings interact with each other.
Sometimes people come to me and say "yeah, well, it's about technology, that's not my business, and I don't really care". This is stupid in various regards. At first, the same people shifted their entire life into that 'technology', and were constantly crying how everything is going to be digital in the future. Beyond that, the entire topic is not at all about tech. It's about how human beings interact. About markets, and all kinds of non-tech things.
"enshittification on modern computers is still relatively new" is like a chain smoker saying something like "lung cancer is still relatively new". Sure, in some way it might actually be new. But is it a good excuse for anything? No. That danger was crystal clear since the first cigarette. Right? Everything else is lame excuses and stupid babble.
This is cynicism or worse, the way to get more open hardware and software, is to buy it and use it, regulation and understanding will catch up. Sure people care more about things other than tech, that's never stopped me from pointing out how tech should work and advocating for it.
I've used Linux for 25 years, and never have I thought it has enshittified. It's only Android in the last decade that has, much like the iPhone, Windows and the big social networks defending their monopolies in court and even losing in some cases, though maybe not enough yet.
Yes, Linux has not been enshittified in all these 25 years. I can confirm. I cannot even confirm that for the entire FOSS scene, though, where it is common sense nowadays to depend on Github and Discord, maybe also Youtube, Facebook, etc. But yeah, that's another story...
Good news: You (as a community) can now finally wake up from your dreams and get some things right!
It's really a shame that you always wait until you really get forced. Particularly in situations when every individual's inability has consequences for the others as well. I really gave up all ideas of a better world. With this community, the best you can hope is that the decay will be slow.
So everyone who would describe himself/herself as a FOSS enthusiast, or at least a friend of a somewhat open system where the user has some actual rights beyond sole consumption, put some pressure towards having actually de-Googled systems. A system that mostly comes from Google, would not fit my definition of that term at all! Even if they removed some parts of it. It's an euphemism. And it's dangerous because you constantly get trapped by these euphemisms. Ever. Single. F'ing. Time.
> You're not alone, Kraig911. It's very hard to be a parent in modern society. My wife and I's friends have basically vanished from our lives, they have zero initiative or interest in coming over to see the kids or help in any way.
Similar to what I wrote in the other reply: How far went _your_ initiative to stay in actual contact with them, in a way it's not a boring duty call, but something _actually_ nice?
If I have friends with children, sure I'm also interested in them. But if it turns out that these friends have no desire to spend time with _me_ anymore - without any kids involved - and they mostly expect from me that I constantly want to see the kids and "help in any way", well, where do I profit from that friendship?? It often gets quite asymmetrical and boring.
> But if it turns out that these friends have no desire to spend time with _me_ anymore - without any kids involved
See the problem is the kids. You can't quite make them go away that easily. My guess would be your friends would love to spend some time with you but can't, because logistics.
> where do I profit from that friendship?? It often gets quite asymmetrical and boring.
Friendships are not for profit. If you want profit, start a business.
> See the problem is the kids. You can't quite make them go away that easily.
You can't, sure. You shouldn't at least. But what does it mean to me? It leads to the fact that the friendship is pointless. So why should I take a lot of initiative, when I don't get anything back anymore? For a reason that they've actively decided for (typically), btw.
> Friendships are not for profit. If you want profit, start a business.
I'm not talking about commercial/monetary/material profits. I'm talking about profits in terms of social lives. If my wording is unfortunate, I hope that it's still clear what I mean. One important (not the only one) currency in that regard is: Timeslots in the calendar.
PS: If the other side shows at least some remote awareness of the situation and indicates a little goodwill, it's already a different thing. In my personal experience, even that isn't common, though.
I understand why they do it, but I cannot ignore that you lose the incentive of visiting your friends and their kids when they always take that visit as a way to treat you like a babysitter. Yes, I accept sometimes looking at your kid while you take a nap, just don't make that the usual experience for years on end, though. I'm lucky, as my friends always understood when I pointed that out to them, but I'm aware that this may not be the common reaction.
> It's just hard now. Before I had kids I had a network of friends and had a great social life. Now it's just me and my wife. If I want more friends I'll have to have more kids I guess? I have 4 now. One (my first) is severely autistic.
Maybe this disappointment is at least a bidirectional thing?! For me it's quite hard to find somebody in my contact list who has children today AND did not turn into a mostly pointless contact.
There's often the expectation that you're super interested and excited about their children. But even if you'd try. You'll never get something back. Not because they turned into bad persons. But because there are just no spare resources for it (e.g. in terms of calendar slots) on their side anymore.
Do I have to be infinitely sympathetic with them? Or is there some limit at which I am allowed to say: This friendship just doesn't give me anything anymore.
since i had kids my friends come more often to my place since i can go less often to theirs. and we have a great time, because we are friends...
really depends on what you call friends. i am not very social and have very few friends (i don't have a "contact list"), but these are strong friendships.
I would love to be wrong... But hey, you let Google happen so far, Chrome, YouTube, you let GMail happen, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, you let WhatsApp happen, you let Cloud happen, subscription models, Android, iPhones, EME, Discord, ..., ..., ...
And anybody here actually thinks that you will be strong enough to stop WEI?
One could just laugh, if it wouldn't be so sad....
You will - as always - stop nothing from happening, I guess. And you will again happily call it 'pragmatism' or say 'ohh, but I had to; they forced me'...
(I'm sure there are various German things to criticize or to make fun of. Much of what I read here, however, says more about the (US?!) authors, though.)
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