Even calling it “illegal immigration” lends fuel to the fire. There’s a very distinct difference between crossing the border illegally and violating the terms of a legally acquired visa or stamp. The latter is a civil matter which is why people weren’t historically rounded up and detained under threat of violence or murder. So yeah this whole thing is strictly about xenophobia being used to whip up the in group about an out group so we don’t look too closely at EG Venezuela or the sales process for presidential pardons.
When people, or communities, or companies, show you their true colors, believe them. Watch out for all those flocking in to explain how this is different…
What I see today on HN mirrors the processes I've witnessed in Russian speaking parts of the net during the 2010s. Despite the escalation of totalitarianism in Russia, the growing internet censorship and military operations in nearby countries, which left the posters on the same websites on the different sides of military conflicts, some sites have stuck to their "no politics" rule. Both to avoid upsetting people in power and out of their owners' naïve beliefs.
Reading them was like living in an alternate reality where nothing more notable happens than a release of new version X of a framework Y. Large portions of the tech community had exactly the same attitude that could be seen here and now - refusal to consider the societal implications of their daily work, adherence to technical solutions over the real world ones ("I'll just work remotely and use a VPN, who cares") and just simple willful ignorance.
It was around that time that I started to frequent English speaking discussions, which were much more vibrant and open. It saddens me to see the same kind of process repeat itself here.
Exactly. I'm watching this from the Netherlands. Until last year I always ignored political posts here but now it's become an existential necessity to be involved.
If it was only that... What I really take issue with are all the mentally ill trolls jumping in to defend ICE, lying through their teeth about the content of videos we all saw. But actually supporting murder isn't enough to get you banned in here.
There’s probably a lot of people that have say mainstream left (eg Obama and Sanders statements around 2010), centrist and conservative views on illegal immigration and support enforcing the law. What you see as something bad happening is something very normal made more difficult by unhelpful state governments and vigilante groups.
Maybe you should change the channel from Fox News, NewsMax and "apolitical" forums. It is happening everywhere dumpty and his goon squad decides to make it happen. Do you not realize these ICE agents are Federal agents? Sure, completely incompetent, racists that choose to join so they can go after immigrants (legal or otherwise) with cover, but officially sanctioned Federal agents nonetheless. Your ignorance and acceptance is sad.
Do you have reports of serious incidents between members of the public and federal agents in Florida as you allege or are you just on HN to insult people but not actually respond to their arguments? If so, what happened?
The one from Minnesota ICE Watch that drove into the cop and the other one from Kingfield Signal ICE Watch group that started a fight while carrying a gun, as you probably already know. There are PDFs of instructions for these groups which involve breaking a bunch of laws. You probably know that too.
Plenty of credible reports of ICE dipshits using force on peaceful protesters. Florida tools are just too busy licking boot to be out peacefully protetsing. Keep on licking, tool.
So it seems you agree, you just calls people interfering with federal law enforcement 'peaceful protesters', and then throw around the expected insults.
Why do you think the people violently trying to stop enforcement of the law the government was democratically elected to enforce aren’t the "boot"?
Anyone who believes ICE is legitimately trying to rectify illegal immigration is either too stupid to function or a liar.
Because I give the benefit of the doubt, I will assume most people are not that stupid. So, the only option left is they don't actually believe it, and it's just virtue signalling to their fascist overloads. Personally, I think that's a bit pathetic, not to mention naive. Nobody has any reason to think they will be spared, citizen or not.
This presidency reminds me a lot this speech from Knives Out: Onion Ring:
“ If you want to shake things up, you start with something small. You break a norm or an idea or a convention, some little business model, but you go with things that people are kind of tired of anyway. Everybody gets excited because you're busting up something that everyone wanted broken in the first place. That's the infraction point. That's the place where you have to look within yourself, and ask: Am I the kind of person who will keep going? Will you break more things? Break bigger things? Be willing to break the thing that nobody wants you to break? Because at that point, people are not going to be on your side. They're going to call you crazy. They're gonna say you're a bully. They're gonna tell you to stop. Even your partner will say you need to stop. Because as it turns out, nobody wants you to break the system itself. But that is what true disruption is, and that is what unites all of us. We all got to that line, and crossed it.‘
It’s like the following this recipe to break the system
If I were on the Nobel Prize committee, I’d feel deeply ashamed seeing the prize reduced to a kind of political currency. It’s meant to recognize extraordinary contributions to humanity, not to be leveraged as a gesture or bargaining chip in political theater.
Just to note that the Peace Prize committee is a completely different one than the other prizes.
The five members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee are appointed by the Norwegian Parliament while the Swedish Nobel Committee is composed of institutions proposing laureates and a larger body of experts to choose the recipients. The Norwegian part does both: selecting candidates and choosing the winner.
I think it's important to know so the Peace Prize process doesn't diminish the achievements of the other prizes.
> Earlier in the day the Nobel organizers posted on X: “A medal can change owners, but the title of a Nobel peace prize laureate cannot.”
> (…)
> Earlier this week, the organisers of the Nobel peace prize announced the award could not be “shared or transferred” after Machado told Fox News she wished to “share” it with Trump. “The decision is final and stands for all time,” they said.
> Machado is not the first Nobel laureate to divest themselves of the award.
> After winning the 1954 Nobel prize in literature, Ernest Hemingway entrusted his medal to the Catholic Church in Cuba – where it was briefly stolen from a sanctuary in 1986 before Raúl Castro ordered its return.
> In 2022, the Russian journalist Dmitry Muratov auctioned his medal to raise money for Ukrainian child refugees. Leon Lederman, who won the 1988 Nobel prize for physics, sold his after it had spent 20 years “sitting on a shelf somewhere”.
> Machado appears to be the first person to give away her medal for such explicitly political reasons, although in 1943 the Norwegian writer Knut Hamsun gifted his decoration to Hitler’s propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels, as a sign of his admiration for the Nazis.
Then there's James Watson who was given a Nobel prize medal twice. First by the Nobel Committee, and second by Alisher Usmanov, who had purchased the medal at an auction in order to give it back to Watson, who had put it up for auction.
And are you implying that the solution is to stop those highly desirable people from coming in because that will help you afford a place in South Bay?
In other words since you cannot compete with them, outlaw them?